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#454542 - 09/20/00 06:04 AM Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC A lot of things that have happened recently on these, and other boards have gotten me to thinking.

I am a survivor or childhood sexual abuse. I was raped by my father repeatedly when I was young, both orally and anally, and was also beaten severely by him, as well as screamed and yelled obscenities and put down's constantly by him on a sometimes daily basis. The rapes would occur when he would lose heavily in gambling. My mother, severely crippled by rheumatoid arthritis, never had a clue to what was happening, as she spent most of my young life in a wheelchair, zonked out on Darvon, or whatever it was they made after that when Darvon didn't work anymore. Simply put, my real life was a fucking hell.

Why I'm still here I believe, is because of comic books.

After a little time with Daddy, I found the world a rather bleak and scary place. There was no one to protect me. Really, I had no one. My older brother was lost in his teen years in the early 60's, and claimed he wasn't aware of it either.

So, I would get lost in my comics, of which I had hundreds. Those of you who have also been abused know how easy it is to "numb out". When I would read my comics it would stop the hurting and make me forget how scared I was. So, I grew up in that world, essentially. Each month, I would spend every spare penny I had, or could beg borrow or steal to get my books. I probably spent 3.50 a month on comics back then, which in 62 for a 7 year old is a LOT.

I have to say, my sense of balance, of truth and justice, of honor and of perspective was kept in place by reading these stories, and living in them. I could escape the real world effortlessly, and these "friends" were always there. The good guys always overcame terrible adversity and won in the end, and the world was safer in there, and safe as a result.

When Jack Kirby died, I felt like my real daddy died, I'll tell you that.

The idea that comics could foster pedophilia is insane, whether pedophiles are associated with them or not.

Trust me on that one.

Top


#454543 - 09/20/00 10:39 AM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Matthewwave
Member

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 4993
Loc: Seattle, WA USA jack,

I often don't know how to take your posts, but if you are being honest here -- and if you're not, boy is it neither clever nor funny -- but if you are, damn, I'm sorry. My sympathies, and congratulations on your survival.

Lots of us escapes various forms of childhood unhappiness, into the world of comic books. The joy of adult comic book reading includes the experience of having your world expanded or revealed to you thru your reading, rather than it being escaped. It sounds like in the balance you write of finding in your childhood reading, you found in comics something like this "older" comics joy and strength even as a kid. Cool.

Take care,
Matthew

Top


#454544 - 09/20/00 10:52 AM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC Thanks, Matthew, it's absolutely honest.

I think of comics as one of the "purer" ways of communicating ideas. As a child, it was wonderful to be able to "see" any of those worlds at will, so to speak.

The same holds true even now for me, although I admit, my tastes have changed dramatically. Where in the past Spider-Man was my all time favorite, with FF, Thor, Superman Green Lantern and the Flash, close behind. These days its, Ghost, Oh My Goddess, Spy Boy, and even {gasp} the Punisher, who give me that same kind of reading pleasure that I got as a kid.

There's also the other side of comics, like the stuff Fantagraphics produces regularly, like Black Hole, and Jim Staros Big Top stuff, not to mention Hinds Beowulf, the stuff Millionaire is doing in Maakies, and James Kochalka.

I think there is a renaissance going on in comics currently. I use my son who is 8 as a barometer of what works at that level. He reads almost all kids comics like Sonic and Knuckles and Loony Tunes, but he also LOVES Akiko, all things Batman Sock Monkey and Sof Boy, and is always bugging me to read SpyBoy to him.

But seriously, if it weren't for comics, I wouldn't even be typing this stuff.

[This message has been edited by jack (edited 09-20-2000).]

Top


#454545 - 09/22/00 04:43 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
RANDY
Member

Registered: 05/12/00
Posts: 2343
Loc: U.S.A. Jack, as someone who has never experienced that type of trauma, I can only sympathize with what you endured. Thank God something like comics was there to help you survive. Harlan Ellison once said in an interview that SF, movies and comic books were what saved him from a life of crime and degredation. Without them he was sure that he would have wound up face down somewhere at a young age.

Top


#454546 - 09/22/00 04:58 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC Fran (?) Dreschler is a good example. She was able (in Daddy's Girl) to show the real horror of sexual abuse, and yet still create a real story, where the interests of the main character transcended that horrible part of her life.

Reading "Daddy's Girl" was one of the most liberating experiences of my adult life.

Top


#454547 - 09/22/00 05:56 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Smax
Member

Registered: 09/07/00
Posts: 42
Loc: Canada Well, jack, there are much worse things that kids from that situation can get into than comix. Drug addiction. Alcoholism. Prostitution. Or becoming abusive to other people throughout life. While I've never been in your situation (sure my old man kicked my ass a few times but that's it), I've read that child abuse is one of the root causes of the ills in our society today. However, being a comix devotee is not one of those ills, despite what some no-life-of-their-own busybodies may say.

Top


#454548 - 09/22/00 05:56 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Samuel Catalino
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447 Okay,

I will be serious about this.

My answer is that it depends. Comics back in the 60s were a whole lot different than they are now. It is due to the reaction to the 50s which brought about what happened in the 60s(toned down scripts, somewhat happy endings).

Are comics bad for children? In the 60s, my answer is NO. Now, I am not so sure. Some of the stuff coming out makes the stuff which caused a major outcry in the 50s tame. Thank heavens there are good comics to be had out there, but my fear that the quality is being swamped by the quantity.

I do worry that if the industry does not soon police itself, the iron law of responsibility will kick in.

Of course, that's my opinion. If we don't see an upturn on the next generation to read comics, we may be seeing the beginning of the end of that noble story-telling artform.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

Top


#454549 - 09/23/00 07:56 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Matthewwave
Member

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 4993
Loc: Seattle, WA USA Debbie Drechsler did Daddy's Girl and does Nowhere.

Fran Drescher (sp?) was on the sitcom, The Nanny.

Matthew

Top


#454550 - 09/23/00 10:16 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
ThomasPaine99
Member

Registered: 06/12/99
Posts: 46
Loc: North Comstock, New York, Sull... Jack, it is a well known fact that people abused as children, grow to become abusers themselves. I would advise you to seek the help of trained Doctors in getting to the base of your feelings regarding children. I just pray that your own son is safe. I mean, if we're to believe national statistics, and all.
_________________________
Tom Paine
"Let that that has come from dust return to it"
Henry Orek
The Vacuum Foundation

Top


#454551 - 09/23/00 11:16 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC RICKIE, put your ear to the ground, and listen. You hear that sound? Of course you don't.

Only untreated victims (like yourself) are in any danger of growing up to repeat the cycle. Years of therapy have taught me to identify perpetrators.

Who had you RICK? Mommy or Daddy? Or someone else? Your brother? Or uncle? Do they all still deny it? Sounds like you still do.

I have no problem accepting what happened to me at all. In fact, I understand it quite clearly.

You don't even realize the reason I set up this thread, was for you to come stepping in it.

Top



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[Troll Kingdom Envoy]

the more times you post it, the less credible it seems, Pats

rose west is my bitch

[Troll Kingdom Envoy]

so Pat - sorry, 'Flaglerchat' - what happened on the 28th?

you said something big would be going down that day, yet not a peep.

speaking of court dates, have you recieved your subpeona yet?

[patrolled faggot]

so Pat - sorry, 'Flaglerchat' - what happened on the 28th?

you said something big would be going down that day, yet not a peep.

speaking of court dates, have you recieved your subpeona yet?

flaglerchat is MINE!

[BatteryGirl]

flaglerchat is MINE!

You filthy filthy whore!!!

[Jack&Joan R FEDERAL]

Moi wood phuKKK dere brainz owt

[Jack&Joan R FEDERAL]

so Pat - sorry, 'Flaglerchat' - what happened on the 28th?

you said something big would be going down that day, yet not a peep.

speaking of court dates, have you recieved your subpeona yet?

Czech yer mail bucKKKet........... auld J00

cc:
Katherine Graves
c/o Stowe Yoga
515 Moscow Road
Stowe, VT 05672


STEIGH TOONT


MUWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[patrolled faggot]

Moi wood phuKKK dere brainz owt

give me a pic goddammit!

You ugly fucking bastards

[Troll Kingdom Envoy]

give me a pic goddammit!

You ugly fucking bastards

I showed you some pics of Flaglerchat in the other thread

[patrolled faggot]

I showed you some pics of Flaglerchat in the other thread

you talk shit

you did no such thing

[Troll Kingdom Envoy]

yes I did

this is Flaglerchat:










these were taken quite a long time ago (when he was still married to his fat ginger wife) - he's now almost completely bald apparently. He works as a bartender/waiter in an O'Charleys restaurant in Bristol, virginia

[patrolled faggot]

yes I did

He's old

Is that you flaglerchat?

[Troll Kingdom Envoy]

he'll deny it , but it is him: Patrick Mannix (Flaglerchat)

[Troll Kingdom Envoy]

so Flagler's really a kid from Florida?

[patrolled faggot]

he'll deny it , but it is him: Patrick Mannix (Flaglerchat)

Not bad looking for a fogie

[patrolled faggot]

ok lets put it like this, youre a suburban angsty troll. theres a guy who lives a couple houses down that's banned from filing lawsuits ever again who has harassment charges against him from people in florida and tennessee. You google for forums in florida, still withme? you take that really obscenely overmarketed shithole forums name and use it as a moniker and let the lulz begin. now you take this haphazard useless info i gave you and put it to some decent use.

oh shut up you failed sherlock

[BatteryGirl]

lol

[patrolled faggot]

your country is controlled by the army, not your president

[patrolled faggot]

http://pastehtml.com/view/c9vycpjt8.rtxt


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#454542 - 09/20/00 06:04 AM Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC A lot of things that have happened recently on these, and other boards have gotten me to thinking.

I am a survivor or childhood sexual abuse. I was raped by my father repeatedly when I was young, both orally and anally, and was also beaten severely by him, as well as screamed and yelled obscenities and put down's constantly by him on a sometimes daily basis. The rapes would occur when he would lose heavily in gambling. My mother, severely crippled by rheumatoid arthritis, never had a clue to what was happening, as she spent most of my young life in a wheelchair, zonked out on Darvon, or whatever it was they made after that when Darvon didn't work anymore. Simply put, my real life was a fucking hell.

Why I'm still here I believe, is because of comic books.

After a little time with Daddy, I found the world a rather bleak and scary place. There was no one to protect me. Really, I had no one. My older brother was lost in his teen years in the early 60's, and claimed he wasn't aware of it either.

So, I would get lost in my comics, of which I had hundreds. Those of you who have also been abused know how easy it is to "numb out". When I would read my comics it would stop the hurting and make me forget how scared I was. So, I grew up in that world, essentially. Each month, I would spend every spare penny I had, or could beg borrow or steal to get my books. I probably spent 3.50 a month on comics back then, which in 62 for a 7 year old is a LOT.

I have to say, my sense of balance, of truth and justice, of honor and of perspective was kept in place by reading these stories, and living in them. I could escape the real world effortlessly, and these "friends" were always there. The good guys always overcame terrible adversity and won in the end, and the world was safer in there, and safe as a result.

When Jack Kirby died, I felt like my real daddy died, I'll tell you that.

The idea that comics could foster pedophilia is insane, whether pedophiles are associated with them or not.

Trust me on that one.

Top


#454543 - 09/20/00 10:39 AM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Matthewwave
Member

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 4993
Loc: Seattle, WA USA jack,

I often don't know how to take your posts, but if you are being honest here -- and if you're not, boy is it neither clever nor funny -- but if you are, damn, I'm sorry. My sympathies, and congratulations on your survival.

Lots of us escapes various forms of childhood unhappiness, into the world of comic books. The joy of adult comic book reading includes the experience of having your world expanded or revealed to you thru your reading, rather than it being escaped. It sounds like in the balance you write of finding in your childhood reading, you found in comics something like this "older" comics joy and strength even as a kid. Cool.

Take care,
Matthew

Top


#454544 - 09/20/00 10:52 AM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC Thanks, Matthew, it's absolutely honest.

I think of comics as one of the "purer" ways of communicating ideas. As a child, it was wonderful to be able to "see" any of those worlds at will, so to speak.

The same holds true even now for me, although I admit, my tastes have changed dramatically. Where in the past Spider-Man was my all time favorite, with FF, Thor, Superman Green Lantern and the Flash, close behind. These days its, Ghost, Oh My Goddess, Spy Boy, and even {gasp} the Punisher, who give me that same kind of reading pleasure that I got as a kid.

There's also the other side of comics, like the stuff Fantagraphics produces regularly, like Black Hole, and Jim Staros Big Top stuff, not to mention Hinds Beowulf, the stuff Millionaire is doing in Maakies, and James Kochalka.

I think there is a renaissance going on in comics currently. I use my son who is 8 as a barometer of what works at that level. He reads almost all kids comics like Sonic and Knuckles and Loony Tunes, but he also LOVES Akiko, all things Batman Sock Monkey and Sof Boy, and is always bugging me to read SpyBoy to him.

But seriously, if it weren't for comics, I wouldn't even be typing this stuff.

[This message has been edited by jack (edited 09-20-2000).]

Top


#454545 - 09/22/00 04:43 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
RANDY
Member

Registered: 05/12/00
Posts: 2343
Loc: U.S.A. Jack, as someone who has never experienced that type of trauma, I can only sympathize with what you endured. Thank God something like comics was there to help you survive. Harlan Ellison once said in an interview that SF, movies and comic books were what saved him from a life of crime and degredation. Without them he was sure that he would have wound up face down somewhere at a young age.

Top


#454546 - 09/22/00 04:58 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC Fran (?) Dreschler is a good example. She was able (in Daddy's Girl) to show the real horror of sexual abuse, and yet still create a real story, where the interests of the main character transcended that horrible part of her life.

Reading "Daddy's Girl" was one of the most liberating experiences of my adult life.

Top


#454547 - 09/22/00 05:56 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Smax
Member

Registered: 09/07/00
Posts: 42
Loc: Canada Well, jack, there are much worse things that kids from that situation can get into than comix. Drug addiction. Alcoholism. Prostitution. Or becoming abusive to other people throughout life. While I've never been in your situation (sure my old man kicked my ass a few times but that's it), I've read that child abuse is one of the root causes of the ills in our society today. However, being a comix devotee is not one of those ills, despite what some no-life-of-their-own busybodies may say.

Top


#454548 - 09/22/00 05:56 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Samuel Catalino
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447 Okay,

I will be serious about this.

My answer is that it depends. Comics back in the 60s were a whole lot different than they are now. It is due to the reaction to the 50s which brought about what happened in the 60s(toned down scripts, somewhat happy endings).

Are comics bad for children? In the 60s, my answer is NO. Now, I am not so sure. Some of the stuff coming out makes the stuff which caused a major outcry in the 50s tame. Thank heavens there are good comics to be had out there, but my fear that the quality is being swamped by the quantity.

I do worry that if the industry does not soon police itself, the iron law of responsibility will kick in.

Of course, that's my opinion. If we don't see an upturn on the next generation to read comics, we may be seeing the beginning of the end of that noble story-telling artform.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

Top


#454549 - 09/23/00 07:56 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
Matthewwave
Member

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 4993
Loc: Seattle, WA USA Debbie Drechsler did Daddy's Girl and does Nowhere.

Fran Drescher (sp?) was on the sitcom, The Nanny.

Matthew

Top


#454550 - 09/23/00 10:16 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
ThomasPaine99
Member

Registered: 06/12/99
Posts: 46
Loc: North Comstock, New York, Sull... Jack, it is a well known fact that people abused as children, grow to become abusers themselves. I would advise you to seek the help of trained Doctors in getting to the base of your feelings regarding children. I just pray that your own son is safe. I mean, if we're to believe national statistics, and all.
_________________________
Tom Paine
"Let that that has come from dust return to it"
Henry Orek
The Vacuum Foundation

Top


#454551 - 09/23/00 11:16 PM Re: Are Comics Really Bad For Kids?
jack
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC RICKIE, put your ear to the ground, and listen. You hear that sound? Of course you don't.

Only untreated victims (like yourself) are in any danger of growing up to repeat the cycle. Years of therapy have taught me to identify perpetrators.

Who had you RICK? Mommy or Daddy? Or someone else? Your brother? Or uncle? Do they all still deny it? Sounds like you still do.

I have no problem accepting what happened to me at all. In fact, I understand it quite clearly.

You don't even realize the reason I set up this thread, was for you to come stepping in it.

Top



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