How come Italy used to be the center of the civilized world,

[Genital Doli]

pretty sure you missed my point about the berbers and further the moors not being united under one grand dynasty called the Almoravids because they werent

1.) not in the 9th century
2.) obviously. because the saracens of the 9th century were from arabia.
3.) i didnt specify what i consider to be a moor, so you're pretending to argue a point in order to stick it.
4.) again the emirate of bari was under saracen(arab) control
5.) bari was not an italian city at this time
6.) not part of this argument, again.
7.) bari was not an italian city at this time

[Genital Doli]

1.) not in the 9th century
2.) obviously. because the saracens of the 9th century were from arabia.
3.) i didnt specify what i consider to be a moor, so you're pretending to argue a point in order to stick it.
4.) again the emirate of bari was under saracen(arab) control
5.) bari was not an italian city at this time
6.) not part of this argument, again.
7.) bari was not an italian city at this time

you dont get to keep posting maps of the almoravids and then say "i never specified what i was calling a moor!! haha loooool fail." when it was really obvious you were using moor to refer exclusively to the berbers in al-andalus which is so fucking wrong its retarded. first the wikipedia article youre using as a source to mean "saracen" was written in the 21st century you retard, its not a long lost relic of the 9th century i promise second "not in 800 A.D." yeah, and you know that how exactly? third, the conqueror of bari was not an "arab", he was a berber. berbers are moors. also, what do you mean "bari was not an italian city at this time". yes, it was. it is not possible to translocate a city from off of a peninsula, and if youre arguing culturally then youre seriously the biggest idiot in the world because the person who first brought up moors and italy was talking about the general region of italy not the medieval use of the word which referred more or less to the kingdom in charlegmanes empire anyway youre dumb.

[Genital Doli]

note in that document that saracen refers to the ishmaelites i.e. the muslims, not the arabs.

[Genital Doli]

Yeah... really nice medieval source there, Doli. You do realize that I have this map of the Almoravid dynasty, right?