How come Italy used to be the center of the civilized world,

[rubycalaber]

topical huge image test

only thing ive learned reading thsi thread is that i dont want to study history

[rubycalaber]

test test test

[Genital Doli]

sicily is not italy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Bari :)

[Genital Doli]

Helo. My name is clay. ;] ;] ;] \ ;] ;]

1.) The Emirate of Bari was a short-lived Saracen state (emirate) centred on the south Italian
2.) Saracen was a term used by the ancient Romans to refer to a people who lived in desert areas in and around the Roman province of Arabia
3.) Arabia Petraea, also called Provincia Arabia or simply Arabia, was a frontier province of the Roman Empire beginning in the 2nd century; it consisted of the former Nabataean kingdom in modern Jordan, southern modern Syria, the Sinai Peninsula and northwestern Saudi Arabia.

how stupid are you

Youre stupid the moors invaded sicily in the late 9th century idiot

seriously, how stupid

At the dynasty's greatest expanse of control

[Genital Doli]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors#M...Southern_Italy

[Genital Doli]

At the dynasty's greatest expanse of control

The Almoravids were , exclusively, the Moors, and you arent an idiot arguing semantics

[Genital Doli]

1.) The Emirate of Bari was a short-lived Saracen state (emirate) centred on the south Italian
2.) Saracen was a term used by the ancient Romans to refer to a people who lived in desert areas in and around the Roman province of Arabia
3.) Arabia Petraea, also called Provincia Arabia or simply Arabia, was a frontier province of the Roman Empire beginning in the 2nd century; it consisted of the former Nabataean kingdom in modern Jordan, southern modern Syria, the Sinai Peninsula and northwestern Saudi Arabia.

how stupid are you



seriously, how stupid

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...523863/Saracen

[Genital Doli]

The people who conquered Bari were people from the fucking tiny Roman province of ARabia by the ancient ROman definition, and it makes sense to apply it to a time 400 years after the Roman Empire fell, and not "Saracens" in the general medieval form of the word which came to mean all practicioners of Islam including berbers, turks, and arabs. This makes a lot of sense, and isnt a really retarded line of arguement.

[Genital Doli]

The thing I love even more is that youre quoting from the first line of a wikipedia page without even bothering to read the freaoocking next two sentecnces haha clay youre so retarded and i hate you

In Europe during the Middle Ages the term was expanded to include Arabs, and then all who professed the religion of Islam.[1] The expansion of the meaning occurred first among the Byzantine Greeks and then among the Latins.[1] By the time of the Crusades, beginning in 1095, a "Saracen" had become synonymous with a "Muslim" in European chronicles.

[Genital Doli]

Bari first became the object of Arab or Berber raids in late 840 or early 841, when it was briefly occupied.[1] According to Al-Baladhuri, Bari was conquered from the Byzantine Empire by Kalfün, a mirwah—perhaps a servant or escaped slave—of the Aghlabid Emir of Africa.[2] Kalfün (Khalfun) was probably of Berber stock,

[Genital Doli]

Clay do you want me to keep going or are you going to stop being an annoying little bitch when I know more about this than you do and youre retarded

[Genital Doli]

so what are the facts

[1] saracen is a general term used in the medieval ages often applied to all muslims
[2] saracen is used on a wikipedia page talking about the emirate of bari
[3] "moor" is a similarly general term without much ethnological meaning but, being lenient to clay the retard, can be said to mean "those of berber stock" if we really want to narrow it down even though this is wrong
[4] bari was conquered by a slave from the Emirate of Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_of_Africa) and was most likely of berber stock
[5] Bari was conquered by both a Moor and a Saracen by both definitions
[6] clay doesnt know how to read wikipedia unless its for cool semantic arguements made up of "well the meaning of the word fag is actually bundle of sticks, and im not one of those you retard"
[7] Moors went into Italy and clay youre so wrong lol

[Genital Doli]

pretty sure you missed my point about the berbers and further the moors not being united under one grand dynasty called the Almoravids because they werent

[Genital Doli]

Damn. Thats some damn good shit, some damn good historical arguements and what not. But you understemated me. I have a map I downloaded from Medieval Total War about my favorite faction the Almoravids (the moors)

white germanic is the best race what who said that

1.) not in the 9th century
2.) obviously. because the saracens of the 9th century were from arabia.
3.) i didnt specify what i consider to be a moor, so you're pretending to argue a point in order to stick it.
4.) again the emirate of bari was under saracen(arab) control
5.) bari was not an italian city at this time
6.) not part of this argument, again.
7.) bari was not an italian city at this time

going back to the original argument, muslims never had any sort of major presence in italy and they had nothing to do with the fall of rome

[Genital Doli]

1.) not in the 9th century
2.) obviously. because the saracens of the 9th century were from arabia.
3.) i didnt specify what i consider to be a moor, so you're pretending to argue a point in order to stick it.
4.) again the emirate of bari was under saracen(arab) control
5.) bari was not an italian city at this time
6.) not part of this argument, again.
7.) bari was not an italian city at this time

you dont get to keep posting maps of the almoravids and then say "i never specified what i was calling a moor!! haha loooool fail." when it was really obvious you were using moor to refer exclusively to the berbers in al-andalus which is so fucking wrong its retarded. first the wikipedia article youre using as a source to mean "saracen" was written in the 21st century you retard, its not a long lost relic of the 9th century i promise second "not in 800 A.D." yeah, and you know that how exactly? third, the conqueror of bari was not an "arab", he was a berber. berbers are moors. also, what do you mean "bari was not an italian city at this time". yes, it was. it is not possible to translocate a city from off of a peninsula, and if youre arguing culturally then youre seriously the biggest idiot in the world because the person who first brought up moors and italy was talking about the general region of italy not the medieval use of the word which referred more or less to the kingdom in charlegmanes empire anyway youre dumb.

[Genital Doli]

oh hey clay, look, heres something else that i could google easily because my keyboard wasnt covered in snickers leavings

There is also the people-deceiving cult (threskeia) of the Ishmaelites, the forerunner of the Antichrist, which prevails until now. It derives from Ishmael, who was born to Abraham from Hagar, wherefore they are called Hagarenes and Ishmaelites. And they call them Saracens, inasmuch as they were sent away empty-handed by Sarah; for it was said to the angel by Hagar: "Sarah has sent me away empty-handed" (cf. Book of Genesis xxi. 10, 14).

The Fountain of Knowledge by John of Damascus ,c. 730 AD, Chapter On Heresy

[Genital Doli]

note in that document that saracen refers to the ishmaelites i.e. the muslims, not the arabs.

[Genital Doli]

Yeah... really nice medieval source there, Doli. You do realize that I have this map of the Almoravid dynasty, right?

pissing match of reposting actual smart peoples work

[Genital Doli]

i just want clay to be wrong rly badly bcause i hat hte mods and admins of this site and every blow i strike against them i s once step closer to freedom for all posters

[Genital Doli]

pissing match of reposting actual smart peoples work

also this is litreally the academic discipline of "history"... makes u think..

having to wade through your posts is honestly such a punishment, dude. i'll read the last 18 ones you did, in response to like 1 of mine, tomorrow

[Genital Doli]

or you could just stop postin g here. Thank you